topic Re: Have I been robbed?!??!?! in PCs & Accessories

Have I been robbed?!??!?!

inectarios — Tue, 12 Oct 2004 01:13:52 GMT

Dear everyone,
I have recently bought a VAIO A117S laptop. As anyone with a little-more-than-average interest in computer stuff would do, I downloaded some stuff to test my new machine..just to make my self feel that my money was well/worth-spent.

The A117S is supposed to be carrying the ATI MOBILITY RADEON 9700. From what I've read this graphics card is based on ATI's M11 chip which is basically identical to its predecessor the M10 chip which is found on the ATI MOBILITY RADEON 9600. However, performance wise, the M11 chip should be better..I suppose...since from some specs I found on the web the MR9700 is running from 390Mhz to 450Mhz core speeds while the MR9600 runs at 300Mhz.

The thing is, I have downloaded some utility software from ATI's web site (ATI Inspector) that can identify the card and give you some good details including the type of chip, the product code and so on..

What I get is this:
------------------------
ATI MOBILITY RADEON 9600 SERIES AGP
64 MB DDR SGRAM/SDRAM

In ATI Info utility I get the following:
----------------------------------------------
Graphics Chipset (ASIC) : M10<3D

But in the display section in the 'System Information' utility of windows XP I get this:
-----------------------
Name: ATI MOBILITY RADEON 9700
PNP Device ID:
PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_4E50&SUBSYS_818A104D&REV_00
\4&20FB2818&0&0008
Adapter Type: ATI MOBILITY RADEON 9700 AGP
( 0x4E50), ATI Technologies Inc. compatible
Adapter Description:ATI MOBILITY RADEON 9700
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

I also downloaded ATITool 0.0.22 overclocking utility which also identifies my card's chip as M10 but gives a core speed of 392MHz and a memory speed of 223MHz

P.S all of the above utilities report the card's AGP bus type as 1X,2X, and 4X.Both M10 and M11 are supposed to be 8X-capable cards.

What the f**k is going on here? Is this some expenditure-cutting fraud from Sony? Do they give you another chip and just customize the drivers to look like you have another?

Re: Have I been robbed?!??!?!

jammold — Tue, 12 Oct 2004 01:36:26 GMT

Sony don't tend to customise the drivers as far as I am aware. In addtion, it is unlikely (although not unheard of) for Sony to make a false claim about the Graphics Processor or try to dress up an older chip to make it look newer. Maybe the readings given out by AtiTool 0.0.22 are indicative of CPU-load and system architecture of your machine.

Re: Have I been robbed?!??!?!

William — Tue, 12 Oct 2004 08:04:17 GMT

I am sure that do indeed have what is advertised in the specs.

Your Graphic chip(s) are probably integrated into the motherboard and the diagnostic software may be looking for/ expecting a desktop video card.

As for the results, as has already been said the drivers do not tend to stretch the capabilities because of heat considerations etc.

You may even find that you get competely different readings for mains power and battery.

Just because the desktop "card" is AGP 8 compatible does not guarantee that your laptop is/has AGP8.

To conclude, I am sure you have what it says on the box and I am sure that you have great graphics

William.

Re: Have I been robbed?!??!?!

TygerTyger — Tue, 12 Oct 2004 14:03:19 GMT

Sony have their bad points just like any company but I've never yet heard of them falsifying hardware. The only statistic you quoted that I was able to find with absolute minimal effort on my part was the core speed.........and according to ATi the card has "Dual RAMDACs at speeds of 400MHz". Yours was reported at 392Mhz which sounds correct. ATi's website also states that the Mobility card has a thermal sensor which gives variable performance based on thermal settings. In other words if it's hot it slows down. Since you had been running tests I think it's fair to say that's what happened. Try them first thing after you laptops been off all night and you will probably get a speed boost, or so it says. It also says on the ATi website (which I suggest you read) that the card is AGP 8x Supported. You may be right here, this basically means that while it can do 8x, it depends on the manufacturers enabling it. And bless their hearts, it's not Sony's strong point. Have a word with them (www.vaio-link.com for phone numbers) and check it.

I'm not sure why you didn't read ATi's website, you obviously spent a while there. I agree with the previous posts, it's the diagnostic software that's wrong.

Re: Have I been robbed?!??!?!

kee-lo_ — Tue, 12 Oct 2004 14:18:57 GMT

I have to agree with the lads here, sounds to me like it's the correct chip, but ATis tools are not working correctly on a mobility chip (?) which is a bit odd.

I doubt Sony would try fooling people, they would only end up with a legal battle, something Sony don't want, all they want is happy VAIO users.

Re: Have I been robbed?!??!?!

William — Tue, 12 Oct 2004 16:21:08 GMT

I doubt Sony would try fooling people, they would only end up with a legal battle, something Sony don't want, all they want is happy VAIO users.

Yeah, they might be scoundrels when it comes to dodgy memory sockets but even they wouldn't be blatant enough substitute inferior graphics chips:smileycowboy:

William

Re: Have I been robbed?!??!?!

inectarios — Tue, 12 Oct 2004 16:23:15 GMT

thanx 4 ur posts guys..

look.. i don't have a problem with my card's performance.. its actually a bit better than I expected it to be.. and anyways if I wanted a real gaming laptop I would by a 5.0Kg Dell, but then there would be other drawbacks...

btw.. I did search ATI's website..along with a number of forum sites. The problem was not with the core speed. I mentioned the core speeds just to indicate that it seems to be running like a MR9700... the question was if it actually was..

well thanx again.. if anyone comes accross with any ATI or ATI compatible testing/identification software please let me know..

Re: Have I been robbed?!??!?!

kee-lo_ — Tue, 12 Oct 2004 17:53:03 GMT

Have you tried SiSoft's Sandra 2004?

Re: Have I been robbed?!??!?!

William — Tue, 12 Oct 2004 18:11:57 GMT

As Sony never seem to turbocharge the innards of their laptops (and maybe desktops) I can only speculate that benchmarking will ineviteably lead to disappointment and tears.

I used to do it myself so I hope I don't sound condescending.

My advice would be to use your Vaio and enjoy it - Just don't play the latest games on your laptop

Willaim

Re: Have I been robbed?!??!?!

jammold — Tue, 12 Oct 2004 19:02:08 GMT

I agree - Benchmarks seem to tell half-truths...

If you do decide to do a benchmark then you need to help out Windows XP a little first and run this command, by clicking Start and then Run:

Rundll32.exe ADVPACK.DLL,ProcessIdleTasks

Please note that this is case sensitive.
The command will run for fifteen (15) minutes and the hard drive will be active through most of it. But I personally wouldn't bother too much with benchmarking.

Re: Have I been robbed?!??!?!

kee-lo_ — Tue, 12 Oct 2004 19:48:45 GMT

My advice would be to use your Vaio and enjoy it - Just don't play the latest games on your laptop  

Willaim

Well said

Re: Have I been robbed?!??!?!

TygerTyger — Tue, 12 Oct 2004 20:29:27 GMT

In summary:

If you buy a Vaio you get looks and status and you becomes the envy of anyone interested in computers for a hundred miles around you.

What you DON'T get is a high performance graphics card. Sony are frankly moo excrement in this area, although their processors are top-notch.

If you are a gaming geek you will no doubt have noticed that while Dell's laptops are ugly bricks, they surpass the equivalently priced Vaio in terms of performance. So, in a perfect world you get both, but in the real world you get one or the other. Asus are actually pretty much in between the two, maybe they are a better choice.

I'm really quite suprised you didn't research this more intensely, I chose a Vaio after research because of the wonderful screen and beautiful styling, even though for the price the performance was well behind other manufacturers.

Re: Have I been robbed?!??!?!

jammold — Tue, 12 Oct 2004 20:45:41 GMT

Well said TT!

I chose mine because of a Sony rep in my nans shop gave me a demonstation (of the GRT915MP Series) - and I also liked it for these reasons:

1. Its a Sony
2. Fantastically bright TFT LCD Screen (15.0")
3. Its a Sony
4. Superb audio from internal speakers, DVD playback
5. The styling of the unit
6. Memory Stick Slot
7. Its a Sony.:smileycool:

The list goes on and on. LOL - Not that I am biased or anything!

Re: Have I been robbed?!??!?!

kee-lo_ — Tue, 12 Oct 2004 21:37:13 GMT

Maybe you should look at Alienware if you want at top-f-the-range notebook for gaming.

Re: Have I been robbed?!??!?!

faithx — Tue, 12 Oct 2004 21:43:28 GMT

I simply chose my VAIO because it was the best value for the spec compared with other machines ¿ and that¿s it really :smileynerd:

Re: Have I been robbed?!??!?!

kee-lo_ — Tue, 12 Oct 2004 21:45:29 GMT

Nothing wrong with that Faith...

Re: Have I been robbed?!??!?!

inectarios — Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:38:13 GMT

thanx 4 the help..

Although "I'm really quite surprised", that some ppl don't seem to get my point of opening this thread. When I said "IF I wanted a real gaming laptop I would buy a 5.0KG Dell, but then there would be other drawbacks..." that's what I meant...

The research I did was more than intense, since the money I wanted to spend was of an above-than-average budget. BUT because I truly believe that above all, whether or not you are brand-loyal, Sony-fanatic or whatever, you still are a customer and a consumer with rights, and its more than your right to have full knowledge of what you are buying.

thanx 2 those who listen..
:smileycoffee:

Re: Have I been robbed?!??!?!

kee-lo_ — Wed, 13 Oct 2004 14:35:23 GMT

BUT because I truly believe that above all, whether or not you are brand-loyal, Sony-fanatic or whatever, you still are a customer and a consumer with rights, and its more than your right to have full knowledge of what you are buying.

Totally agree with that statement, after all we are customers or consumers as the government would like us to be known as.